The day after Christmas 2024, the co-nerds of Kill Screen received a text message from Decibel editor-in-chief and notable not nerd Albert Mudrian: “Contents of my Out of Season package”. Attached was a photo of his haul, made up of a copy of Mortiis’ Født til å herske on vinyl, a black-on-foil sticker branded with the label’s crossed-mace-and-flail logo and, most importantly, a Magic: The Gathering card, Aura Gnarlid. A common from a Wilds of Eldraine commander pre-con, it was far from the most expensive part of the parcel (hell, the mailer it came in is pricier than this thing). Recognizing what was just bestowed upon him, however, it was precisely this $0.19 piece of cardboard that he knew would get his two nerdiest associates buzzing in the group chat. “Anyway,” he concluded, “this guy is rad. Add him to your hit list.”
“That guy” is Out of Season Records founder and appropriately surnamed Kyle Forest. Having created the label in 2015 to be a “purveyor of fantasy music, dungeon synth and metal,” today’s player character has been an advocate for the black metal-affiliated microgenre well before its recent rise in popularity. Over the past decade of operation, more than 200 titles have seen releases thanks to Forest’s efforts—a mighty feat for any musical enterprise, let alone an independent one. Such dedication to the craft would, unsurprisingly, lead him to collaborate with the overlord of the oubliette himself, Mortiis. Represses of Keiser av en dimensjon ukjent and Født til å herske (our aura-curious editor’s shiny new LP) as well as a 2022 live recording of Crypt of the Wizard are now available via Out of Season. The drawback? Reality continually encroaches on the label owner’s fantasies; responsibility the unconquerable final boss of small business ownership. A diehard gamer with a love for classic JRPGs, our guy finds less opportunity for digital escapism from his growing profile. As we ready ourselves for the Decibel Magazine Tour to be synthesized into another plane, Forest graciously took some time to give us a rare inside glimpse at his ever-unfolding tale.
What was your first gaming experience?
I was born in the early ’80s. My sister and I got an NES. I remember we saved up all of our birthday money and allowances and whatever for quite a while and got an NES with Duck Hunt and [Super] Mario [Bros.]. I know that my parents had an Atari, but that was when I was really a baby. I remember my sister did tell me that she played Atari with my dad, but I’m not sure which one it was—I would assume 5200. I never really played Atari, but NES was my gateway and I was obsessed with it. I got a subscription to Nintendo Power. Because Dragon Warrior—Dragon Quest—was such a flop in the U.S., they were giving away copies of Dragon Warrior for free if you subscribed. That was one of the huge game changers for me. It’s still probably my favorite franchise. I don’t know if it’s as a result, but it certainly had a huge impact on my trajectory in life from that moment. The fantasy aspect of it and the booklet and everything that came with it was totally incredible artwork-wise.
Is fantasy typically the genre that you gravitate towards when it comes to games?
I wouldn’t say exclusively. Recently, they reissued the Final Fantasy remasters all in one Switch cartridge. That was incredible. I was like, God, why did this take so long? Those are some of my absolute favorites. Some of them weren’t released in the U.S., so it took a while to actually get them. Maybe I didn’t play them until they were on emulator when someone translated them, but all those are some of my favorites. Dragon Quest, the original first six games or so, those are absolutely top tier for me, especially for when they were made. The amount of work and care, everything had to be perfect when it was released. [It’s not] like it is today where you just go back and send out bug updates, right? Games are being released today that are just half-finished and that really drives me crazy. These guys back in the day were slaving away to make sure these games are absolutely tested, 100 percent perfect.
The music aspect, obviously, is a big part. Writing the music in code, I don’t even understand how they figure that out. I always found the whole process just fascinating in terms of how they put the whole package together and then got it from point A to point B, conception to delivery. Considering the technology that they had back in the day, it’s really a marvel that they were able to do that. Especially with some of those fantasy games, where it was hours and hours and hours of gameplay that was all in one cartridge with such limited memory.
And those worlds still feel huge. I [James] challenge somebody to go back and play Final Fantasy I or Dragon Quest I. If you’re not sitting there with a guide or walkthrough and you haven’t played it before, those worlds seem vast and intimidating. You get to that marsh cave for the first time in Final Fantasy, you’re going to get murdered.
Exactly. That was a big part of it. Unless you had Nintendo Power or some kind of strategy guide, you’re just kind of wandering around for days sometimes, like, Where the hell…? I think in Castlevania [II: Simon’s Quest], there’s a part [where] you can’t progress unless you kneel down next to a rock and use some jewel or whatever. It’s like, How the hell would any kid have figured that out?
What are you playing lately? What’s the umbrella of interest for you?
Lately, I mostly play Xbox now—when I do have time. My schedule is absolutely crazy. I wish I had more time to just relax and chill and play games, but the label stuff has really kind of exploded, in the last year or two especially. Now I’m doing some touring, so I have a Switch, too, that I can bring with me when I’m traveling, which is cool. But I still gravitate to a lot of “retro” side-scroller kind of games, like Shovel Knight. There’s this really awesome game called Door Kickers. Have you played Hotline Miami? It’s pretty similar to that, but it’s a side-scroller instead of a top-down view, where there’s a limited amount of guys in the level [and] you have to kill them all. It’s a lot of good strategy involved. And then stuff like Tomb Raider, I totally love those kinds of puzzle adventure games. Beat ’em ups, the classics like Streets of Rage. The [Marvel vs. Capcom] series is amazing. Mortal Kombat. I haven’t played the newest, I think the last one I played was X, but I did love that one. My time is a bit limited the last couple of years, so I’ve kind of missed out on a lot of the newer stuff.
You mentioned leaning towards retro. For you, when would you say “retro” ends and “modern” starts?
PS1, I would say. PS2 and on would be modern to me I guess, even though PS2 is, like, 25 years old. [Laughs] I never had PS2. I had PS1 and then I stopped getting any new systems until the Switch. Probably [from] 2000 until 2017, I was only playing retro games in that whole span of, like, 17 years, so I missed out on an entire generation of gaming consoles and games. I’m slowly going back. I just played [Grand Theft Auto V], like, a year ago for the first time. [Laughs] And it’s amazing. I was like, Oh my god! But that’s like ancient history at this point. I’ve never played GTA: San Andreas. That’s still on my list to play. Those kinds of games, I missed out on that whole era. I was in university and playing in all sorts of bands and touring. I still was [emulating] older games, but I didn’t own any systems or anything for quite a while. I was moving around a lot and didn’t really own much. Now that I am more stable—I bought a house, like, 10 years ago and I’m not really moving again—it definitely helped to have more of a base. I’ve been slowly trying to catch up, but to answer the question, I would consider PS1 to be my cutoff as far as what I consider to be retro, especially in terms of graphics. Between N64, PS1 up to PS2 was a huge jump in terms of quality of graphics.
You mentioned a couple modern titles that lean into that retro sensibility. We’re seeing an explosion of interest in pixel art games, voxel games, even this PS1, more clunky 3D animation in certain styles. Do you ever have any feelings about the authenticity of some of these titles, or are you more interested that this kind of art style is returning and maybe even excited to have these quality of life updates that some of the older systems may not have been able to handle?
I guess I feel kind of similar to how I feel about music. When something’s fake and just being done for inauthentic reasons, I can spot it. I feel like with a lot of these pixel games, you can look through the virtual store on Switch and see so many of these games that are just chud, for lack of a better word. [Laughs] They’re just slop that is out there. At some point—Nintendo especially—they used to have a really high standard. And at some point, they just gave up on that. Anyone can put a game on their console so they can make more fees on the store. But I feel like the cream always rises to the top and you’ll notice the games that are authentic.
Consumers of video games and music, I think they’re not stupid. They can spot a fake from a mile away. And so if it’s some studio that’s just crapping out some pixel game just to be retro for the sake of being retro, then it’s probably going to be forgotten and not paid attention to. But if it’s someone who’s actually really doing it as a labor of love and they’re actually interested in that kind of style and are doing a really solid job, then they’re going to get attention eventually. Stardew Valley is one guy and that’s now one of the biggest games on Switch because it is so authentic and it makes people feel a certain way, right?
I noticed there’s some kind of pixel game out there called Quest Master, which I thought was funny because that’s one of the more well-known artists on our label. And the guy from Quest Master [Lord Gordith] messaged me—I think it came out maybe a year or two ago—and he was like, “Do you think we should say anything? Do we need to monitor this?” I’ve never played it, but I was just like, “I wouldn’t worry about it. It’s no big deal.” If anything, it might give us a few more eyes, in a roundabout way. So, whatever. There’s just so many instances of these kind of games that are out there that, I’m sure well-intentioned, but they just seem a bit lacking in terms of their execution, I guess.
With anything, if you get somebody who’s a major innovator, you’re going to see people copying that, for not the most generous term. For example, one that wasn’t super high fidelity graphics or anything was a game called Vampire Survivors. That came out, and now there’s a whole bunch of other people who are doing a similar style to it. I think you can get that with anything, whether it’s music or movies or games. I [James] imagine with what the label puts out that you see some people who are very genuine and really love this, and then you see some stuff where it’s like, “Man, this guy’s clearly just heard a record and was like, OK, I’m going to copy that, chuck something out and put it on Bandcamp.”
I guess. I don’t have a problem with that. I think as long as people are doing it for the right reasons, whether or not they’re super inspired by one artist or anything. Heart, I guess, is what matters to me. How many bands are there out there that are just complete ripoffs of Discharge? There’s a thousand of them. And yeah, you could be like, “That’s super corny and generic,” but I’m kind of like, if you like that thing and you’re coming at it from the right perspective, that’s awesome. Even if it is kind of generic, it’s more of a tribute. It’s not like they’re ripping them off. They’re just obsessed with this one band and decided to make a band based on it.
With Out of Season, dungeon synth is kind of your bread and butter. Do you see much overlap in terms of the realms of dungeon synth and video games in terms of interest, be it fantasy or any other?
Yeah, absolutely. I would say, like, 99 percent of people I know who are into this kind of music are, if not video games, into either tabletop gaming, [Dungeons & Dragons], board games. Not as big, but there’s certainly some people who are into Renaissance Faire, LARPing or any of that kind of “nerd culture” or whatever you want to call it. There’s a huge crossover with all those kinds of scenes.
Specifically for video games, we didn’t have any of our stuff up on Spotify or any streaming services until about a year ago. Just out of principle, I was kind of against it. But I was getting so many emails and messages from people who were like, “There’s a feature where if you’re on PS5 or Xbox, you can run the Spotify app and listen to music while you’re gaming.” I had no idea that that was a thing. They were like, “This kind of music would be perfect if you’re playing Skyrim or whatever and you want to listen to some dungeon synth music. It seems like a no-brainer.” And so I touched base with the guys that I work with closely and when I framed it that way, like, “I think we can come at this from a different aspect other than ‘we just need to be on Spotify so we can make streaming royalties and it’s this heartless machine.’ Maybe we can get on streaming and enhance people’s experiences when they’re doing something just to chill at home.” If you’re going to run it straight from the same machine, that’s amazing. You don’t have to play YouTube on your phone while you’re gaming or whatever. [Laughs]
Have you ever listened to your artists while you’re gaming or do you prefer to keep them separate?
Yeah, I definitely have. I feel like I always have to be multitasking. There’s a few podcasts that I like listening to, and the only time that I feel like I have to get caught up on some of those episodes is when I’m like, Alright, I’m going to sit down and play Tomb Raider or whatever for a couple of hours. I’m gonna try to listen to this episode while I’m doing that so I can get caught up on it. I find myself doing that more often, but yeah, for sure. The stuff that I’ve been releasing is because I like it, and it’s the stuff that I enjoy listening to. I started to make a top 10 list for last year and I was like, I can’t. This is so dumb. It’s all just stuff I released. [Laughs]
Obviously with the musicians you work with, [their music] is a little more ambient and low-key. Do you find that as a result you often have more appreciation for video game soundtracks as well?
Yeah, I think so. I think that there’s so much in common with video game soundtracks and the kind of music that we’re releasing in that it’s almost exclusively with no vocals, made with synthesizers or keyboards and drum machines. That pretty much describes all video game music. So yeah, there’s a lot of crossover there. For example, you can hear a town theme and immediately you have this jolly exploratory experience that’s going through your mind. I think there’s tons of crossover there, but also some of the music for video games is totally underappreciated. I just saw that there’s symphony tours happening for, like, Final Fantasy and Zelda, so they are kind of finally getting their recognition. Going to legitimate symphony venues and they’re playing Final Fantasy VII or whatever, it’s awesome because that music is so good. It deserves the attention that maybe it never got from the mainstream before. I hope that people go that aren’t just into video games. If people go that are classical fans or symphony fans, maybe they’ll go to check it out.
If you were given the opportunity to make an Out of Season-curated game soundtrack, what would that sound like? What kind of game would you like to work with?
I definitely think something in the Skyrim realm would be really cool. Even a top-down JRPG kind of game would be amazing. So much of the music is just like, This would fit perfectly in a town setting where you’re walking around. But I think ideally, something like Octopath Traveler or the new Dragon Quest 2D/3D hybrid remake [Dragon Quest I, II & III HD-2D Remake], that would be the perfect medium of the “new-school meets old-school” kind of mashup that I find myself existing in. Those games also are incredible. The Octopath Traveler series, those are probably my favorite games for Switch so far.
Much of dungeon synth harkens back to a time long gone by—medieval setting, nature, very much not a modern sensibility. Quest Master is a really great example of somebody who’s doing something that bridges both the sonic quality of classic dungeon synth, but also recognizing modern mindsets and electronic influence. Is there any kind of dissonance when it comes to the [modus operandi] of dungeon synth working in concert with something like video games that is such a modern marvel?
No, I don’t think so. On its own, you can listen to it and it can be escapism and create visions in your mind of certain places and times, which I think is one of the biggest aspects of it that’s positive. But we all exist in the modern world. None of us are going on quests across the land. [Laughs] We live in the modern society and blah, blah, blah. So, as much as I daydream about that not being the case, modern conveniences are pretty sweet sometimes. I think it’s kind of a happy medium—a way to let your mind wander and you can still enjoy the modern sensibilities. Or if you’re not into that, you can do some pen and paper AD&D or board games or whatever you like to do, play dice or something. Those kinds of things are timeless. I think whatever people are into is cool.
Do you get much tabletop time in? Is that in the interest of yours?
Not really. I have a hard time committing to play at the same time every week. Some friends and I, we tried to start a weekly thing and then someone had a kid and that derailed it. And then we were like, “Alright, we’re going to get back to it,” and then someone moved away and they were like, “OK, maybe we can do it over Zoom.” And then I was like, “I don’t know, it feels kind of weird.” I think it’s easier when you’re younger and maybe in high school and it’s just an after-school activity or whatever, maybe on a Friday. But as you get older, I find it’s harder to commit to doing something at the same time every week. So yeah, long story short, not really.
One of the merch items you had while you were on the road was tabletop dice with the Out of Season logo. Did you find that people were pretty receptive to a non-traditional merch item like that?
Yeah, for sure. I’ve had various dice sets available for a while. They’ve sold really well. I think that that’s something that maybe some bands forget about on tour. Not everyone has a record player. Maybe you’re like me and you already own, like, 500 black t-shirts. You’re like, I want to support this band, but I don’t really want a record or a shirt. So, if you have some kind of non-traditional stuff available, I feel like some people gravitate towards that just because it’s like, Oh, I’ve never seen that before. That’s cool. And if I don’t want it for myself, maybe I’ll buy it for a friend who’s into gaming or whatever. I think it’s cool to have some kind of stuff like that that might appeal to people that aren’t just looking for the shirt/CD/record kind of thing that everyone else always has. There’s a bit of marketing to it, but I know that it’s something that our fans are interested in, too.
You mentioned the dice could be a conversation starter. Did you get many conversations on the road with people about “nerd culture,” as much as I [Michael] hate that term?
Yeah, for sure. It’s been cool. Up until recently, it’s been a real bedroom genre of just very solitary, online-only interactions. Bringing it into the real world and meeting people face to face has been really neat. Whether it’s talking about gaming or music or whatever, it’s been really cool to meet fans and connect in person. It’s a lot of first-time meetings, so people seem in general excited, just like, “Oh my god, this kind of music is being played in front of me and in a club!” That’s pretty cool. It’s probably not everyone’s cup of tea, but for the people that do like it, they’re 100 percent in. There’s no real in between, I feel. Either you’re like, “I hate this and it’s really boring,” or you’re like, “This is my favorite thing in the world.” There’s been so much enthusiasm, which is awesome.
You also mentioned bringing the Switch with you. When you’re on the road, do you get a chance to play it much?
Not as much as I’d like, just because I’m usually driving. I feel like the time I play it the most is when I’m on flights. If we’re flying places, I can bust it out for a couple hours, which is cool. We just went to Japan with Quest Master. We were only riding the bullet trains there across the country, so I had a bit of time to relax there and didn’t have to drive, which was nice.
Most important question of the interview: Our editor-in-chief recently ordered a package from you and inside you included a Magic: [The Gathering] card, Aura Gnarlid. Are you a fan of Magic? Is this just a genius way to get rid of draft bulk?
[Laughs] Yeah, we put a Magic card in all the orders. That’s been a huge conversation starter. I’ve had someone who orders from us all the time be like, “I’m starting a deck that’s only cards you sent me in packages.” [Laughs] I was like, That’s friggin’ awesome. The guy who works for me doing most of the mail order, his name’s Tom. He’s a huge Magic guy more so than I am. Obviously, I’m a fan of the game and the artwork especially has always attracted me. I wish I could go back in time and buy some of these cards again. I remember when Magic first started going to stores and me and my friend were buying cards that probably today are worth, like, $10,000. No idea what happened to them.
But who would have ever known the kind of value that they would have? You had no idea as a kid.
Yeah, yeah, for sure. My dream is that we can eventually partner with Wizards of the Coast somehow and do some kind of collab. So, if anyone out there from Wizards of the Coast and Magic is reading this, feel free to hit me up. My DMs are open. [Laughs]
It’s not impossible. Companies do get in touch out of the blue, too. A couple of times we’ve had people say, “Well, to tell you the truth, kind of a boring story—somebody just emailed me.”
Yeah. Actually, last year, Quest Master was flown to Italy to play at a Magic tournament. And that was actually his first show ever. It was pretty out of the blue. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Brain Dead. They’re a collective from Los Angeles. They put on this Magic tournament in Bologna that was, as far as I know, officially set up. Quest Master is from Australia and he had never played in his own country before, [laughs] but was like, “Well, you know, I’ve been kind of thinking about playing live. This sounds pretty amazing.” Sounds like it was a really cool time.
Brain Dead’s done a bunch of Secret Lair drops with Magic: The Gathering. There’s your in!
Right! We’re supposed to meet up. I don’t know if we’re going to do another event, but we’ve been talking a little bit about doing an event at their theater in L.A. on the upcoming tour. It’s a little bit on hold right now for obvious reasons [note: at the time of this interview, the wildfires in Southern California were not yet contained], but hopefully… It’s a real heartbreaker, what’s going on out there.
With this upcoming tour and the Switch, you got any games that you’re hoping to bring with you? Any games that you’re looking forward to or just sticking to the classics for now?
I did just get the Dragon Quest III 2D/3D remake. I’ve maybe put an hour into it so far. I’m going to bring that with me and hopefully I’ll play through that. We’re heading to Europe next week for, like, a month. I’m hoping that that will last me most of the trip. I’ll probably bring a couple other random titles. I realized that in Japan, the Switch games are much cheaper than they are in America, so I bought a few while I was over there that I was meaning to pick up for a while. I got Super Mario Bros. Wonder. I’m going to probably play a bit of that. I think I still have a bunch of digital games on my system that I haven’t even played yet, too. That should be fun.
I spent a lot of money while I was [in Japan]. [Laughs] I’m a big CD collector and a lot of the video game soundtracks are only released on CD. They’re still releasing new CD soundtracks of games. They still have Tower Records, too. You can go into Tower Records and buy a new, current video game soundtrack, which is totally mind boggling.
What were the key [soundtracks] that you were looking for?
Final Fantasy, obviously, was number one. I really wanted to find anything Resident Evil/Biohazard. I did find one of those. I found Chrono Trigger, I found a bunch of Dragon Quest. There’s actually a store in Tokyo that’s only anime and video game music soundtracks. It’s crazy. How is that a store that exists and is successful?
There’s a lot of stuff that I wanted, like Donkey Kong Country, Super Mario World. But unfortunately, it seems like Nintendo has been really lacking. They released these once in the ’90s and then never again. Now they’re, like, $250, $300, even with the exchange rate from U.S. dollars. I’ve never really understood why Nintendo is so averse to the music world. They don’t have anything to do with music and they won’t license any of their soundtracks to another label to do, which I find really unfortunate. Not only from a sales standpoint, but from just a fan standpoint, they could probably sell, like, 100,000 copies of Donkey Kong Country on vinyl. Who wouldn’t want to own that?
They could print money. They already do, but from soundtracks alone, they could. They make it so goddamn impossible. If they put out a deluxe, clunky CD case and they called it literally SNES Nostalgia Music—are you kidding? They would have thousands of pre-orders.
Absolutely. Yeah. It’s pretty interesting. But anyways, long story short, I’m basically on the lookout just for a lot of the classics that I love. I also did pick up the Octopath Traveler soundtrack—a four CD box set of Octopath Traveler—which is really sick. So many metal and punk CDs, too, that I wanted that only ever came out on vinyl over here, they have on CD over there. So yes, I spent a pretty decent amount of money, but it was worth it. It’s just stuff you’re never going to see unless you go on eBay or whatever to buy it.
The day that we’re recording this interview, Nintendo finally announced Switch 2. Do you have any high hopes? Are you going to be seeking it out or is life going to get in the way?
It’s definitely cool, but it didn’t, like, blow my dick off, I guess. [Laughs] I mean, it looks awesome. I’m sure I’ll eventually pick it up, but the regular Switch is fine. I’m sure in a year or two, once the game library has been stocked with some more titles, it’ll be like, “Alright, this is now something you need to get.” But at launch, I don’t really see myself buying it. I’m sure that they’ll sell a ton of them. I’m sure the quality of graphics and everything will be amazing. But seeing as I already have a Switch, I feel content to just keep using that for a while longer until the wheels fall off.
We’ll see. I’m sure they’re going to announce a new Zelda game that’s only for Switch 2, or a new 3D Mario game. I’m sure that they’re going to have those. But I feel like I have enough games that I already own and haven’t played yet—collecting dust—that I should be all set for at least a year. [Laughs]
I’m [James] sure lots of people who check in for Kill Screen columns are also fans of video game soundtracks. If somebody reads this and is looking to listen to a soundtrack tonight, which one would you recommend?
Oh, good question. There’s a YouTube channel called DUSTINODELLOFFICIAL that has some really amazing playlists on it of Genesis music. Genesis games especially, I think, have incredible music. I would say check out that channel and throw something on. There’s tons of compilations. The Waterworld soundtrack for Super Nintendo is actually unbelievably good.
Huh. Who would have thought?
Yeah, exactly. You’re kind of like, What? But yeah, that soundtrack is so good. So, maybe throw on the Super Nintendo Waterworld soundtrack or anything by Aubrey Hodges. He’s super talented. He did some of the music for a few of the Doom games. You can’t go wrong with any of his stuff. He has his own YouTube channel, too, and he’s still releasing music as far as I know. I would love to do something with him eventually if we could figure it out. I’m not sure how the licensing works in terms of whatever. [Laughs] But anything to do with water seems to have really good music, like Wave Race or Waterworld. Any of the underwater levels from games. SNES drunk, there’s another YouTube channel. He has a bunch of playlists of chillwave, Super Nintendo music. Those are all really incredible. That would be my suggestion.
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